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EIX session, Thursday, 6th May, 11 a.m..

CHAIR: Good morning everyone. Welcome to EIX ?? we have to start this one on time because there is loads of good stuff coming up in the next hour and a half. We have using the typical format at EIX so this morning there is going to be ?? the majority of the preparations are going to be updates from Internet Exchanges around Europe and this afternoon there will be presentations and a small workshop about peering, the Internet Exchange community and technology and commercial issues. It's going to be a good agenda today. So thank you for coming along.

Thank you very much to Tim on the support team for this session and Fergal or Laura and Amanda the Jabber scribes. Thank you very much to everyone lending support. The first presentation is going to be Thomas about peering, meeting, peering and beering in Prague, so thank you Thomas, over to you.

TOMAS MARSALEK: Good morning everybody. My name is Tomas Marsalek, I am director of check public Rick Internet Exchange.

So, first off, the Czech Republic is a very safe place, there are only sleeping welcomes only 4km from Prague, so you never know if they will wake up or not, so I have planned some emergency plan put 6509 to my top case and move it in case the fun will happen.

So facts about Prague. There is more than 10 million people and more than 1 million people are living here at Prague. About a 52% houses are connected to the Internet. We have we give to everybody free registry, ENUM and domain system. We also developed BIRD at C dot labs and we are also one of the members of .au domain.

Yesterday data flow through or Internet Exchange was more than 131 gigabits, which gave us place today at between 6 and 7th in Europe.

We are also big consumer of beer. So still number 1, 157 litres, which means closely 1 beer per day, per person including the kids. But remember from my opening session, it's also because foreigners help us drink a lot of, so please help us.

1 beer, half litre, is 1 at a POP and it's not related, it's 25 krownes or 30 or 20, but at the shop, you can buy for 25 cents, I will show you. So, this beer, you can buy for 25 cents. Do you think that this beer is good? Well, it's drinkable, but... and you could imagine that it's cheaper than water.

I suggest, let's say, buy the shop beer starting from 40 cents.

You can see the position, Prague and cheque public, where we are, there a lot of stories where is exactly is the centre of Europe. Because some of the calculations calculate Russia, some of them British islands, some of them not. But five places are somewhere at Czech Republic, the slow vac a, German set, we have the centre of Europe at our country, Poland set, we have here. So just looking like this, you can see that we are very, very close to this, but it depends on calculation where the centre of Europe is.

From my point of view, what's the Internet Exchange? It's a big crossroads, so there are cars at the Internet Exchange packets, so just ?? it's not somewhere ?? it's from Asia, it's not here, a mess like this.

Our topology and our structure is that we have four allocation only right now at Prague, but we plan to maybe extend to more localities at Prague or more cities.

From the fibre connection, it's very well connected to the west, Germany, to the north, Poland and Sweden and to the north path, to Russia, to the east Slovakia, and south part to Russia, south Austria, Hungry and Italy. It's just ?? because it's not public, you know, what's the cost of the 10 gig between say Prague and Frankfurt, let's say it's 6 thousand, but you could ?? you need to ask providers they maybe give you less, maybe give you more also. It depends how much you will pay, so just only it's some number which I know from some discussions with some big operators.

Telehouses, he have about 7 Telehouses in Prague. The total number of square metres, let's say, it's 15 thousand, it's also my surveys through known information, so maybe it's less, maybe it's more, but it's roughly like this. And also the prize per footprint including some kill watt in energy, it's like 700 per month. And we have a sign out two exchanges, our exchange and a very small NFX, we cooperate with each other, so small ISPs are connected to NFX and after that they connect to NIX. It's very similar like Amsterdam.

There are several providers of IP transits. It's only that I know that there is this measure of inter route, global crossing, level 3, Telecom Italia and maybe the others. Also the price is the question of negotiation. And also it depends how much capacity, what you require, what you buy, so let's say, 2 could be, it could be 1 also, I forget ?? sorry.

Well, the last slide is what's the best to buy before you leave the Czech Republic? Definitely it's peering at NIX. Big value, it's much better than buy, for example, houses at grease rate now, so it's a long term investment, but it's the best one. You could buy. If you don't like peering at NIX now, you can buy easily unlocked I phone. There is a lot of stores around right now the cheque ground lost a little bit against the dollar and euro, so maybe it's good shopping for you. You can buy crystal crystal like this, it's very, very popular to buy crystal like a souvenir.

You can buy the stuff like this if you visit our, let's say, 40 kilometres from Prague, it's a school house, very old one, and nice one. It's not ?? so I could do like this.

And for people who like eating and something diet, it's here. It's Prague ham. It's very famous, very good food and it's healthy. It's not fat. Not like the roast pig and ducks, because after it I need to change every year all of this stuff because I don't know why, but it becomes, in the Winter, slimmer so, I need to pay a lot of money every year for motor bike stuff.

So, thank you very much for listening. It's also some sample of nice crossroads. It's not here. It's also somewhere from Asia. So any questions right now?

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Serge from Urags. You mentioned NFX, this is an exchange in Prague?


AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Neutral free exchange.

TOMAS MARSALEK: No more questions. If you need, after that information, where are the iphone shops and that, find me and I will tell you. Okay. Thank you.

CHAIR: So the transit here is even cheaper than the beer. So...

Next up ?? while Serge is setting up, there is one piece of admin I forgot to do at the very beginning. The minutes from RIPE 59 Lisbon were posted to the list a couple of weeks after the meeting. Hopefully, we must take it as read that you have seen them. Were there any objections to the minutes from Lisbon RIPE 59 or questions? Okay. I guess, then, we can approve the minutes of RIPE 59. I am sorry for for getting that at the beginning. Serge, over to you for the Euro EIX.

SPEAKER: My name is Serge from Euro EIX, I want to thanks the hosts NIX.CZ, for a great meeting. They are one of other oldest and active members. I am also pleased to be involved with them. I guess Prague is also a special place for me because it was the very first general meeting that Euro EIX had.

Euro EIX, the association of Internet Exchange points as our name suggests. We have been around for almost 10 years now. The idea is that we bring ISPs together, we share information and we also provide information about IXP. I want to give you a pit of an update since the last meeting that we had in Portugal. Today we have got 48 fill ated IXPs throughout the world. 39 are in Europe and 9 outside of Europe. In total, these fill ated IXPs, the 48 of them actually operate around one?IXPs, which is about a third of the world's IXPs. There is roughly 300, unless someone is going to correct me, bill? 300 or so. We now have about 11 fill ated patrons, these patrons, they financially support euro I X but they also get involved in our meetings and the mailing lists and so on. Layer 2 switch vendors, etc. Anything to do with an IXP and we feel is going to bring value to our community we are happy to have as patrons. So the three newest patrons since the meeting in Lisbon, BIX BG and Sofia, quite a new IXP. They joined us earlier this year. SFINX in Paris, I think they also have joined us since then. And Telex, our newest associated member from the US, who have four locations throughout the US. As far as the patrons go, Arista, MRV and Transmode have also joined Euro EIX. That's just a quick update on our affiliates.

One thing we do is ask our member IXPs to provide URLs so we can have a look at their statistics on a relatively close to realtime base us, there is about a five minute lag. Currently we look at 51 currently IXP Yours sincerely Europe who contribute to this graph and this a look ?? those little dips and cuts is a fact that either our server was down or we lost contact. It's nothing to do with the traffic. You can see it's peaking at just over, or just one 4 gig at around nine o'clock at night. This hasn't changed over the years.

As far as European traffic goes, we do our best to have a look at all the IXPs in Europe. That's through the ones that automate the traffic statistics and also the ones that I talked to and that I scrape and so on. It's now at around 4.3 Terabits per second across Europe, which is about a 56% increase or 175 gig since I present add year ago.

So, how is 2010 compared to 2009 as far as traffic increase goes? It's been quite similar. The Jan to April, there is two growth periods in Europe. That's between Jan and April, then it's pretty much almost guaranteed between April and the end of August is now going to flat line or even drop down and from the end of summer, holidays depending on where you are, in Italy it tends to drag on for a long time, but I think from around the end of July, August is where most of the traffic growth occurs in a year. So now you'll see that around 9.3% has occurred this year. It probably will end up around 55, 56%, again by the end of the year and the rest of that traffic growth will occur after the summer.

I have got a whole lot of numbers here but the ones I wanted to focus on were the European numbers. There is currently around five and a half thousand participants of the IXPs across Europe there is about 125 IXPs in Europe, around 3 thousand of those customers were unique ASN, so that difference in a different that you see the ASNs that are peering at multiple IXPs Europe and today there is about, just under 900 ASNs that peer at more than one IXP in Europe. Some of those peered around 19 or more. So I just had a bit of a look globally, admittedly the European statistics are probably more accurate than the other regions but I think the other regions are relatively accurate. I think there is more IXP ?? well more participants at public IXPs in Europe than the rest of the world combined. You can see by the numbers there. And just looking at those that peer at more than one IXP, it's pretty much the same around the world except for Africa.

So I would suggest globally, there would be just under 10,000, because these numbers that I have here are actually ASNs that I can find. But it's quite a lot of IXPs that only list organisational names, so I probably suggest it's close to 10,000 participants at IXPs around the world today. The information that I got to produce these statistics can be found' you're I X ASN DB, put in an IXP or an organisational name or address and you can get information threw to there. One thing we have developed in the last six months is what we call the euro I X ASN filter. Some of you may have used the euro I X peering matrix before. The big matrix that we had, that showed the ASNs that peered, or the overlap of ASNs appeared at one IXP compared to another one. With this new tool we allow you to go there and you can pick the IXPs that you want to talk about. I have I think 225 IXPs listed in the database, so you can compare all 225 with each other. You can simply say list all the ASNs that are there. List only the ASNs that peer at that particular IXP, or so on and so on. There is quite a few options there. I suggest you go and have a look at it if you are a peering coordinator. You may find it interesting or an IXP looking to get some new customers you may also find this to be quite a useful tool. So go and have a look at that. The ?? if you about the euro I X home page and have a look at tools on the right?hand side. There is a list of the new tools we have available. Have a look at them, if there is something that interests you, click on that. If there is some features you want, send me an e?mail and I am sure we'll have a look into the possibility of adding those features.

Just a quick bit of news before I get off. We had ?? we have two meetings a year where we bring all the IXPs together. Generally we get around 40 IXP from around the world. The last meeting the 16th forum was smack in the middle of the flight restriction to most the people arrived at my meetings on a Sunday and about 80% of the air ports across the Europe were closed on that Sunday so the only people that could arrive were ones that could take land transport. So it was disrupted but we had a good meeting after all with the 55 people that turned up instead of 120. I think our next meeting the 17th is going to be even bigger. That's in Oslo. You are an IXP and you are not a member of euro I X, I am sure I can sort out an invitation for you.

Brief owe euro I X is also look to more actively get involved with the other IXP association that is exist out there. Currently there is at least two others and that's Nap lay in South America and APIX, which is just getting itself together in Asia we are looking to do for with these other IXP associations.

If you want to know news about our members, we have got a new feed where we get our member IXP to send, RS S feeds to us. If you want to keep up to date about IXP news in Europe, come and visit our home page and you will see a link that will get you there. You can get an RS S feed about anything that's going on. We do the same for the ASN DB database any new entries that come into database, you can get a news feed. This could be handy for you peering co?ordinators. Last but not least, I am hoping if we can got time in the second session of the EIX Working Group, that we are going to show you the euro I X film competition, it's a film about IXP. We showed you this in Lisbon and we got some feedback from the community, we took this feedback seriously, we went back to the film makers, we said we wanted to edit it, they did that. We have got a version 2 of this film. Some of you may have seen T anyway we are going to show it later.

That's the end of it. Unless somebody has got any questions for me?

CHAIR: Thank you Serge. Any questions? Thank you very much.

CHAIR: Now we have the IXP updates. The way this works, each IXP in the communities offered to send up an update about their work over the last year since the last meeting. We are going to start with the host city and then do it in approximate alphabetical order. Each presenter will be strictly limited to .O5 minutes so that we can fit everybody in, which might be interesting. But let's ?? kick off with the first meeting recollect the host city. Self from NIX dot CZ will begin.

Good morning, would I like to add more numbers and some details to presentation of Thomas. My name is self, and I will just give a few facts.

At this moment, we found that we are in top ten IXP in Europe, somewhere in position 6, 7. We have four more members connected since last RIPE meeting in Lisbon. We have ten more ports connected to our infrastructure. And a total traffic, or the total capacity connected to the exchange point increased by almost 100 gig.

So these are the facts as of today we can say that since last RIPE meeting, we see a stable growth of the traffic. Regardless, we see some new direct private inter?connections, some private peering somewhere, but still we see growth at NIX.CZ. This is over all picture, graph of whole history at NIX.CZ, but this just confirms that the growth is really fast.

So, the peak at these days it's around 130, 132 gigabits, so you can see that this is real numbers.

Maybe it's caused also by price decrease which we introduced since, as of Jan this year. And we decreased the price for 10 gig port monthly fee, almost about 50% comparing to the price which used to be, till the end of last year. For the details you can check full price list, whatever the page is.

Just short information about IPv6. We see that more and more networks introduced or implemented IPv6 in their networks, so we have nine more IPv6 connections since last RIPE meeting. So, what's going on in these days? The response from the party on Tuesday evening but I haven't found any pictures from that, from that party. Maybe it's better not to have pictures. Drinking in church...

The important thing for this year is to finalise decision and to implementation of new hardware for supporting higher capacities and more ports. That's the most important issue for this year. It's in the final, almost final phase.

We have relevant Working Group of whoever members and customers and guests on Monday, so if you, if you stay in Prague maybe longer after this RIPE meeting, you are welcome, talk to me, Thomas or other people, so you are welcome to have a meeting. We have some presentations, discussions, and also some fun, we have usually some bowling, casino and auctions and you know a lot of fun. So thank you for listening. If you have any questions...

CHAIR: Any questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Elisa from ?? AMS?IX update is coming up now.

ELISA JASUNSKA: Thank you. Good morning. I am Elisa from the Amsterdam exchange. I am going to do this very, very brief. We have a couple of things that already were new over the past year. You may have heard /seen a little bit about it so I am just going to reiterate a couple of slides.

Imagine topology picture and it's the star topology with four cores now and we build...

This did not work out as planned. Okay.

Right. Martin Pels presented on this at a previous RIPE meeting how last year we basically rebuilt our entire topology from an entire Layer 2 platform from an MPLS?VPLS?based one, which opens interesting opportunity to make use of that, not having a complete layer 2 platform any more, I'll get to that in a minute.

We also dropped selling any other ports than GE or 10 GE, it's just not feasible any more to connect smaller copper ports. So this is what we do. Oh, there we go. Okay. This is our topology. We still ?? and we had that already before, the redundant switches on each side where customers are collected to glimmer glass which is to switch in between those, so you guys probably all know that already. So I am just going to continue.

Again, interesting. All right. Due to this ?? this is M P L VV P L S set up, we are able to do interesting thing like we are allowing multiple MAC addresses behind a port, where people came from didn't and now they do again. Interesting development I think. What we now do is we rearranged our entire AMS?IX partner programme, where we now offer reseller ports, which people can basically resell AMS?IX services within their own service portfolio. It's all thought through as it in margins can be added to this thing and, yes, you have to be a registered partner to be able to do this and if you are interested in something like that, come and talk to us after. And there is also a lot of other things that we now are able to do. We are open for ideas if you have any other idea or request, what you would like to see an Internet Exchange to get into. But one of the things, well SLAs is being people keep asking about and IXP being the follow?up of the GR X exchange which we already have at AMS?IX offering more prizing and also SLA selectability, granuality, so this is things that we are looking into or going to look into within the coming month, years, I don't know.

Other things: We have route servers still. We are going, due to higher density line cards that we want and want to use, that will not allow anything else than S v? B plus, we had to find some way to media convert from ?? well for our DWDM op particular. We selected M R v? to facilitate that for us and we are now deploying our entire core, which was the inter switch links from the core to the edge switch as well. DWDM based, which we are now rebuilding with active DWDM equipment. And we are opting a new few data centres. Telecity 4, not with active equipment there, but just being an extension of Telecity 2. I know a couple of people already look forward to Telecity 4. That's going to be available in the summer and teremark is coming up at the end of this year I think. If they and this is what we always do, we POP into, see if they ?? well now we do see if they comply against the standard that we have developed year, last year, two years ago, which is now also on our web site available to download. And all the previous data centres we have are now being audited against the standard, a few of them already comply everything is fine. You can find all that on our website of data centres. And we are going to decrease our prices again. You see.

That's it. Thank you.

CHAIR: Andreas from D six, are you in the room? Next presentation is German Internet Exchange, Andreas.

ANDREAS STURM: Good morning Andreas from DE?CIX give you a short update on what happened since last time in Lisbon.

So, the newest thing is we have got a new colleague, it's another frank so make sure to get the right frank if you mail to us, it's frank W, so we are looking for nickname to get everything separate from F PO to frank W, you will see how it works out in the future. He is my backup so I am HOPPing around the world, and he is doing all the stuff with us.

At the GP F I had a weird graphic stat, so we came up with a new one. We just doubled the traffic in the last 12 months so it's still ongoing and growing. The same with the members and everything else.

This is nice, our IPv6 graph, it's heavily increasing. We have got more than 200 customers now on it, so we just got some tier 1 providers who will just upgrade their IPv6 core, so it's getting really, really into it.

So, with with all the traffic load, we need to buy some new stuff. We bought new M L X 32s, we need this to get all the proper work we did and we just provide in the future too.

This is the funniest thing we had in last year, our route server issue, we implement add new one, the BIRD, it works perfect for the DE?CIX. Any other didn't work as fine as we need to. Because the load configuration was much too long. So what we do in the future is we still looking on Quagga, still looking in OpenBGP, probably we have two BIRDs running so probably set up another third or fourth in the future.

What is new with our regional exchanges? We just ?? what I am talking about is the extension in Munich, it's the most southern German peering point, so if you like to join, just drop me an e?mail and sales at DE? and it's free of charge for the first six months and it's really valuable to go there. Right Axel, from 11? Okay. So where you can meet us and greet us and have some beers with us, even we pay it. It's the thing we host, it's the most recognisable event. It's the IPv6 from western Frankfurt so you are all heavily invited to the congress, there are some space left, not enough for all, but some. So please give Caroline a call or an e?mail or just go to the website and come to the point.

An of course we just entered another amount of meetings, like this meeting and the next NANOG meeting and so on and so on. And if you are not going all around the world and you just come to Frankfurt, just give us a call, come to our office, we will show you what we are doing and of course we will buy you lunch. That's T thank you very much. Any questions?


CHAIR: Thank you Andreas, any questions? I have one actually. The IPv6 graphs, or measurements, do you use flows from your switch to calculate that.

ANDREAS STURM: Yes, we used the M RT go, graphs and we just changed it now because they weren't stable, they got counting difficulties. So just getting news in place. Yeah.

CHAIR: Thank you. Any more questions? Thank you.

Christobal are you ready? He will now present an update from the Espanix exchange in Spain.

CHRISTOBAL LOPEZ: My name is Christobal Lopez recollect this is the first time we present Spain at the right meeting and we'll tell you who we are, our infrastructurend our reliability and our prices.

We are not for profit association under the Spanish law since 1997. This is now almost 13 years running. More than 50 members. More than 140 gig of traffic which is definitely one of the top ten in Europe and in terms of traffic per member we are probably the largest. Many members trust us, a lot of traffic, instead of small members, we have large members and they make the numbers make sense.

We are not for profit but we are not for expence as well. We don't spend almost any money, we have a very, very small staff, it's just me. Everything else is subcontracted outside. We are just for investment. All the money we make we put into switches and equipment, things like that.

We have three sites recollect the main one is call Mesena IT, which is the data centre and we have two paths. Two web sites. One is hosted by Intertion, which is around here and the other one is hosted by Teramark, which is not here I think. We run two separate LANs for ability, both are in production. They are not one or the other, they are back up. They are both production and both members in the core site are requested to connect to both LANs.

Our main site is probably the largest ?? the place where you can find more bandwidth in southern Europe we are not in the battle of who is in the centre of Europe, we are just in the southern corner, the sunny side. I hope you know where Spain is.

Reliability: Well in those 13 years now, we have two blackouts. One was in 2003 and the one was in 2008. We put this in front of our members, they know it. One lasted for nine minutes. And the other one for 26 minutes. So, the average, if you can take an average with two samples, is medium time between failure is six years, medium time to repair, 8 minutes.

Our prices. As I said we are extremely cheap. 10,000 for 10 gigabit and 3,400 for 1 gigabit port.

And well, if you have any questions now, I will be glad to take them or meet you afterwards having a coffee or over e?mail. Any questions?

CHAIR: Any questions? No, thank you very much.

John from Equinix Europe, thank you.

SPEAKER: Thanks a lot. Welcome everybody, and glad to do this quick five minute update.

First of all. So, I guess the first thing I'd like to do is talk a little bit about the recent acquisition of switch and data by Equinix, hopefully you are all aware that that was completed after a long review process by the department of justice. And as of Monday, everybody who worked at switch and data is now an Equinix employee. So we are really glad to welcome those guys on board. It means that Equinix is a lot larger company from the an infrastructure perspective. We now have 87 facilities in 35 different metro markets in eleven different countries. And when we combine our network customers, there is now over 575 unique network operators.

We are calling this group of facilities a global service delivery flat form. And we are doing a lot of work internally to provide a consistent global service for companies who want to work locally, regionally or globally and, you know, know what they can count on when they come to a certain facility.

Inside that infrastructure, of course, we have the 12 and a half, I'll explain the half in main, Equinix exchanges as well as the 7 pack sites. A number of people have asked, before the session, you know what's going on with packs, what's the future of packs and I just want to say at this point in time we don't have any particular announcements to make, it's business as usual. It's a great facility. We are glad to have it be a part of the company and going forward Equinix will certainly do the smart thing in working with with that very valuable asset.

In addition to the 12 and a half and the 7, we also work with a number of very important partners. In Europe, particularly, AMS?IX, DE?CIX and LINX as well as an LIX, ECLIX ?? I wanted to even the score I said AMS?IX already, and even ?? wear an AMS?IX T?shirt during an Equinix presentation just to make up for the fact that I forgot to mention them at GP F.

We also have partnership with the J P Nap in Tokyo who have popped the Equinix facility and inter?connection through Internet Exchange making these services available to customers of Equinix in our data centres is an important part of what we think deference it's an Equinix from our more typical colocation.

Equinix is also doing a serious amount of expansion in 2010, we are spending about 750 million US dollars, expanding in Asia Pacific and Singapore, Hong Kong, in the you recollect S and sill cone valley and Ashbourne and in Europe, all over the shop. In London, Amsterdam, Paris, Dusseldorf, two locations in Frankfurt, Zurich and Geneva and I'll talk about Zurich and Geneva in more detail in a minute.

With all of these sites and all this stuff going on, how do you know who is where and what's where what? We have been working on a project called the network services portal. It says not only is one present but we are trying to gather much nor services they offer in the facility. Whether they are peering, providing IP connectivity or transit. Whether they are transport services, Ethernet, SD H, MPLS, dark fibre services, single century, dual entry, where they come in on their own other third party fibre, and other services, D dot services, hosting services, pot services etc., so that we are building up a portfolio of what's there why am I telling you this? A lot of you guys are server providers in this room. Take a minute to look at what we say you are doing. This is the URL. You can register for a log in and get in there and see what we think you are offering in our facilities and then there is a web form that we are currently update to go include the switch and data sites at this URL, the link is at the bottom of the page. That will allow to you enter information that we can capture and update the database. So this is great because then people can find out hey you are there, you offer that and it could be a commercial opportunity for you.

We have introduced a something we called the Equinix carrier ethernet exchange. It's a platform for layer 2 inter?connection of carrier ethernet, so whereas we use ethernet for layer 3 inter?connections, BGP in met rows for Internet Exchange points, the Equinix carry eater Nominet exchange allows people to build end?to?end connection services including operations administration, maintenance and provisioning information, with global SLAs through these exchange flat form, we are launch it go first in five markets. We'll have 14 additional markets by the end of 2011.

Update on Equinix Paris. That project has been going very well recently. We have got a steady growth in over 50 members, rim is our latest addition to the member list. I have talked to a number of people here, we welcome new participants in Paris. It's a full service Equinix exchange with two POPs servicing about 70% of the ASNs in Paris, we have done work to simplify paperwork if you are not a direct Equinix customer, you don't have to sign 20 pages of contracts any more to join. We have got very good pricing, gigabit and fast ethernet ports are free of charge on a monthly basis, although there is a one sometime install charge and 10 gigs ports are free of charge through this year.

This is Zurich. We are rolling out the Equinix infrastructure there. It should be life at the end of May and we are bringing all of the paperwork simplification process to say that as well. At six P we operate, having add add new site in Geneva we are now add ago third node to that exchange so you can check in Geneva 1, 2 or from Sern and usual. The same thing is true in Zurich, a Zurich 4 facility is 2 thousand square metres, it opened last week, it's lovely. And that provides a lot of expansion space in Zurich for people who want to participates in that exchange.

Last slide now. Equinix worked with Telegeography, who tracks a lot of the under sea cable assets and we sponsor the Telegeography map this year. So this is a beautiful poster, you can get one, it looks great on the wall. It shows all the under sea cable routes. All you have to do is send an e?mail to that address. Send us your name, company, title, phone, e?mail address and physical address so we can put it in a tube and send it to you. The down side is we will be putting you in a database and probably sending you something. That's what marketing people do and it's a great poster so you can always unsubscribe at the end. We have a number of people here who can talk to you. Myself, Remco Van Mook, who I want to congratulate on his joining the RIPE board and becoming the Treasurer, so we are very please with that. Very good Remco. I also have a colleague here, Adam Genoda, who is responsible for launching the Equinix ethernet carry exchange in Europe. If you want to know about he is the guy to hammer on today. And then finally Paul Kearny is here, he is our "uber?geek" for peering and he can answer any questions around that. Thanks a lot for your time.


CHAIR: Any questions? Next up is exchange west who are presenting for the first time. Thank you very much. So Martin from exchange west is presenting.

SPEAKER: My name is mar tins Peter's sons, a few people might already know me, basically last year we started exchange west. At the moment there is only three peers on exchange west. There is a couple of reasons why another exchange in Ireland and actually what happened was that within two months we actually had three exchanges in Ireland suddenly. Now, the idea is that basically exchange west is free of charge for 100 mega bit ports. What we wanted to do was to get small region ISPs to get a taste of peering to help them get going on BGP and the likes, because a lot of them are only using carry PA or things like that. So at the moment we are talking to a few of the regional ISPs and see that we want them to connect. One of the facts is probably that we are in Europe, the most western exchange. If somebody wanted to establish one more west, they would have to do it on an oil platform or somewhere. And I checked it, Portugal is not as far west so it's not possible.

As I said, we have three members at the moment. Traffic is about 2, 3 megabit at peak, so it's not a big thing, but we hope that over the next year or so, that we'll get a few more members in there. The exchange is on a cost sharing basis. So, basically once people have more than 100 megabit traffic, we will charge for the ports but we will look at the cost at that point what it the cost us to provide that. That's pretty much it. Questions?

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: How do you ?? my name is christian, I present the row main yen Internet Exchange here. How question is how do you transport the regional SIP to your exchange point? Who pays the fee?

SPEAKER: Well that is basically down to each individual SIP. They will have to get to the location. Now, there is several possibilities. The location where the exchange is, is in Galway, there is the responsibility to get wireless connection. There is roof space. You can get in by fibre or least time,but you have to basically pay to get in there. We can't provide any of those facilities.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: This was exactly my point recollect the point of my question.

SPEAKER: The thing is just, what you also have to consider when this comes down to cost, it actually costs three times as much to haul your traffic from the west coast to Dublin compared to what it would cost from Dublin to Paris. So it is actually cheaper to exchange, if you are on the west coast, it is cheaper to get into the exchange there.

CHAIR: Thank you. Any more questions?
(Applause) now it's the turn of Mo to present from Linx in London.

MO SHIVJL: I am here to present the Linx update. I will give quick updates about. I'll talk about where we are with ports and traffic. We are currently located, what changes have been made in the network, a quick route server updates, some yen things about the company as a whole and where we are with social networking and a chance for to you ask me some questions as well.

So currently we have 359 members connected to the brocade LAN, this year up to date we have nine new members join LINX. 75 ports and provisions, 36 of them being 10 gig. We peeked about over 600 gig of traffic across the exchange and we are still located in ten locations across London. And all our switches are interconnected.

For a geographical view of where we are located in and around London, from the east side on the right?hand side, the east side of London there, the dock lands, where Telehouse is based. Stretching over the centre of London interaction,west city Telecity power gate and over to the other side of London where Equinix OD4 is in Slough.
In addition to the ten sites that we are at, we also have security space at in?house west. This site is now live and we are provisioning member ports using the colocation fibre even with the recent launch of L D 5, the campus sites at L D 5 and Telecity at power gate, we will also be providing member ports as well there.

Looking into the networks. The brocade have not really made any major architectural changes except we have added two switches here in Telehouse north, so one switch in Telehouse north, one switch here in Telecity sovereign house. This is mainly to cater for the up take of future 10 gig ports. We also moved this switch here, which was located in this ring closer to the main ring as the member growth is really good in that and it just made more sense to keep it closer to where most of the traffic was. The extreme LAN, we have not made any changes at all in the last year at all, architecturaley, but we are in the process of up greating all the software around our switches and we are currently testing and evaluating a extreme B D 20 which is for proper insertion around the Telehouse and sovereign house locations.

Earlier this year we my greated and deployed two of our four Quagga root servers, we migrated them to BIRD. So far it's proved extremely stable. Our main route server on the brocade LAN is serving somewhere in the region of 46 thousand prefixes, over 50% of the members are peering with it. We did suffer however, two minor outages on this route server, one was due to human error, just a miss configuration. And the other was due to removal of appear which we were not really too sure why that happened but we are currently investigating. Hopefully once we get some results from replicate that go we will past onto the developers. But all four of route servers are v6 enabled and still use the Quagga BGP.

We upgraded all our route servers to 8 gigabit of ram and this was mainly due to preempt the memory leaks that we experienced in Quagga over time. We are also currently testing the BGP engine for Quagga. That was being rewritten by Chris hall as heart of the U I X initiative.

Going back to the BIRD deployment. One of the things we noticed when we deployed the BIRD route server was that we had this large amount of, well this increase of prefixes compared to what was in our Quagga route server. At the time we weren't too sure what it was as it didn't replicate on the extreme route servers when they were deployed but a further investigation showed that this was the way we were actually counting the prefixes and a miss configuration of filtering on the route server. It's a large gap, and that was due to the instrumentation being taken away during the BIRD deployment.

In general things about LINX. We have moved head office Peter borrow due to a staff growth and the lease of the old office expiring and we decided to get bigger premises. We also lost one engineer who resigned earlier this year. He has now been replace and his replacement will start in the next week. She has been replace bid this lady here, Jade Antoinnette and we have now two more engineers have started and strengthened the team, Tim Preston and Colin Stilcot. Some of you may no them from previous dealings or peering regments.

So for social networking LINX is currently located in FaceBook. You can get your links from the LINX website. The meeting will will be starting in the few weeks time. We have got a board election going on, if you wish to attend or possibly present or wash our webcast. Go to the website for details.

Accompanying me in Prague it Jennifer at err tonne from sales and Meg an I didn't see bet from marketing. If you have any questions you'd like to ask them, please don't hesitate and if you'd like to ask me any questions now is a good time.

CHAIR: Thank you Mo. Any questions?

Okay. Well thank you very much.
Now, we have Will Hargrief from Low Nap.)

SPEAKER: Hi everyone, I hope you all had fun at the party last night. I maybe had a bit too much fun. I'll try and keep this merciful.

So, I am here with with my colleague, Andy, who you have heard enough from already.

Those of us who don't know who we are, we have 100 connected networks, we have a member owned in London. We have some traffic. We have been around a number of years, there is all I need to say about that. We are working like every other EIX upgrading our switches, we have massive growth for sufficient. We are just going through a process of buying new switches and transmission gear which we should be finishing this week. Expansion: Well we were expanding into interaction in London city. We are really excited to be doing that. This is our first next generation site. It's also our first expansion out of the London dock lands area, which is the sort of traditional heart land of the Internet in the UK and in London. We can take orders for, if you want to connect an interaction right now. And we are going to have a party of course.

So, we are going through a process of lots of people needing to upgrade their ports as well right now. We can't really say why that is, but here is some pictures of some footballers that might give you an idea. And last of all. Yeah, we have route servers. This is a relatively new service for us. We betaed it in 2009. We were the first to deploy BIRD, which you have heard about. And this is going pretty well. If you want to connect to the route server, please drop us an e?mail. But, yeah, thank you very much.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: The 5.9 Terabit peaks are very impressive but I am wonder are you going to be doing any work or your traffic graphing?

SPEAKER: There shouldn't be a 579 Terabit peak. This is M RT go, maybe. As our sort of traffic gross, unfortunately, I don't really feel that M RT go, has grown with us, this kind of 10 year old technology, probably older, so, yeah, that's on the to do list. The graph has to go up and to the right. I haven't even bothered to put one in the presentation because everyone else has traffic going up and to the right. And here we are.

CHAIR: Thank you Will. Any more questions for Will. Is this your first RIPE meeting presentation for SFINX.

SPEAKER: High everyone. I am Jerome from Renet R. I am not from SFINX. As you will see, we do manage the SFINX.

SFINX is existing since 1995. It's a neutral Internet Exchange as it's operated by Renet R, as you know is a French research network. We have two points of present in Paris, one in Telehouse 2, the one in interaction and they are interconnected so we can set up some 10 gig waives. Today we have like 100 SIP connected. Since the beginning of the year, we had five more ISPs and two 10 giggey upgrades regarding DNSSEC, we have three route main servers and we have checktivity so...

And as an Internet Exchange is not just a switch, there are some people working to provide some 24/7 reports, so I think it's important to show that it's, there is a not available, not all Internet Exchange in Paris have that.

Okay. Pricing. I am not a marketing guy, so if you want to complain that it's not expensive enough, you can see some other people. But you can notice that fasters 10, there is no admission fee and I think the most important thing is to tell you that we don't make any profit from this money. All the money from ISPs is used to buy new equipment, new links.

Okay. Here is a design map. So it's very simple. You know, two different colours today. Two switches today with plans to upgrade as we have 10 Gilley demand and ?? you need something else. So, we have ?? the equipment one 1 fibre and redundancy for all ?? all ways goes to boss dock fibre, so.

About services: Well, this is maybe one of the only change since the last year. We now provide IPv6 on the same VLAN as IPv4, it sounds' simple but we ?? IPv6 at the early days of IPv6 and no IPv4 provider want to see IPv6 in the same VLAN so we started like that and the question to my great one VLAN to another at some point of time, it needs some work, so we took this opportunity to get an IPv6 the real IPv6 prefix for Internet Exchange have RIPE, and now we are 57 IPv6 operators.

We can set up private v? van. We have much ?? VLAN but not so interest. Today |we have NTB and DNS, as I said, but, you know, I am here. If you need something, if you feel like some service needs to be set up, you can come and talk with me. I am happy to design everything with my team. We can do plenty of stuff if there is need.

This is about related project. We are not only managing SFINX, well we are managing ?? as well, maybe it's the most part of the work, but we would like to tell you about an initiative in mar say, you know mar say networking is peaking maybe in kind of middle of Africa, Asia, Europe, it is an interesting place. And we feel like you know we want to help setting up something like an optical Internet Exchange to make it, you know, ease toe to find connectivity from one continent to another. Initially the goal was was to something from research community in Europe, but you know you are not selfish. If you feel like that it's useful for you, come and talk with me, we are end can the design and I am really happy to take any point to make the good investment and to buy the correct equipment to offer this service that you might need.

Another Internet Exchange, I am pretty sure that everyone wants to go there. Today we have all ISPs there. We have a small Internet Exchange with only 46 Internet port, but it seems like that the connectivity is going up there. There is a real increase of traffic, so we'll have a gig a bit in a port soon and we are thinking about doing an Internet Exchange in French Guiana, connectivity is not so good, as there is only a single cable. Another one is being set up. Also if we feel like we need to help a bit. Maybe some of you have some stuff there, but it's nice to know that it's not just Europe, there are the other places in the world when you need to do networking. As I said, it's preventing me from going to those nice places, unfortunately.

You want to talk to us. Well first, I am here. Come and talk with me. I am happy to answer any questions. Go on the website. SFINX.FR and contact at SFINX.FC. The e?mail address is wrong there, it's better you use the new one. That's it. Thank you. If you have any questions.

CHAIR: Many thanks Jerome. Thank you. Did you have some traffic graphs on your presentation. Have you got some traffic statistics.

JERMOME DURAND: I am them. They are not on my presentation. We have 25 gigabit peaks in the day. So it's not huge. You know we are not like ?? we don't have, as I say, most cap per city for ISPs. We are plenty of small ISPs, but few big ones, that's why we climb up to 25 gigings. It's not big but it's not small. It's fine.

CHAIR: Thank you. Are there any questions? No. Thank you again.
(Applause) do we have Harald? Now, an update from the Vienna Internet Exchange, VIX.

HARALD MICHL: I am staff member of the Vienna university and we are running the Vienna Internet Exchange since it started. I prepared this presentation to say absolutely the new things. Of course we have some new ports and old ports and customers have come and gone, but I really used it so that things that have influenced especially for you the customers.

So, the first is we are a small exchange point. You know T but finally we got our first order for a port aggregated 10 gigabit link which makes us very proud of that and which may sound like a more internal information. It's the first point here that we have now a very unified information management system, mainly a database that keeps track of everything at the exchange point from billing data to customer data, and we were ?? the requirement for installing this tool was to make first of all our life easier, but also the third point on this sheet depends on it. The we are in the phase of putting a route server into production use and therefore we need to keep check of data of our customers, not only the standard and static data but also dynamic data and we wanted to integrate it all into one interface, one database.

It brings me to the third point. We brought a route server in production use or semi?production use, and normally we tend to look around what's out there and what other exchange point uses, especially bigger ones, ideas that things that work on big exchange points might work at our small exchange. This time we took ?? we started a new way of ?? I think we developed a new product baseded on BIRD, and there will be an extra session of presentation of this what we have done in the afternoon session of VIX, so it would be nice if you have time to come there and give us, especially as it is new for the community I think, we rely on your feedback and we really appreciate it. So don't forget to take some tomatoes with you to throw them if you don't like what we have built.

Another new thing is as you might know, the Vienna Internet Exchange consists of two sites. One of them is have the Vienna university premises itself and one is at the interaction data centre and of course the standards and deliverance of the interaction data centres are very high compared to that the level of facilities we have at the university have been very low since the last ten years. So, we thought it might be a good idea to improve this level of service we can offer to you and we have now a completely new room that is going live into service in the next four to six weeks and we can offer you redundant cooling, fire ?? compared to only alarming system we had to far, there is also the possibility to have 24 by 7 access for all the ISPs that need to, which was not very easy to organise within a university building. And the only limitation we still have is the electrical power. We have about three times as much place as we had before but the power budget is the same, so we will adopt the pricing scheme to charge you on how much power you use to get you to use as little as possible.

As you might know there is a port discount, a price discount of 30% if you connect to both sites on the same, and also this new room, we'll give you the opportunity to have the same levels of quality for the housing site, because offering you 30% discount if you connect to both sites, but you have one good site and one bad site, might not be very fair and so we thought it was a good idea to mention this again. Now you have the possibility to get semi?equal service on both sites, so please make use of this discount and increase your receive ance in Vienna.

So, there is not much people to show which are here from Vienna Internet Exchange, it's only me, so if you have any questions, please contact me and you are contact our team on the contact information you see here on this sheet.

Any questions?

CHAIR: Any questions for Harald? No? Thank you very much.
Okay. Now, we have broken alphabetical order so that ?? he participated in the DNS Working Group group as well. So new and in .O2 places at once, here is has been from NetNod.

JOHAN IHREN: As I suppose most of, you know, NetNod is a large exchange, or rather a set of exchanges in Sweden. We are non profit, a neutral exchange and we were created out of a perceived need from the ISPs of Sweden many years ago that they wanted to have a third party run the exchange rather than run it themselves. It's a similar situation to many other places.

We have added more exchanges over the years and now we are up to six. And of these, two of the six are located in Stockholm where we provide completely redundant infrastructure through all the ISPs connecting to both of the exchanges.

In addition to the actual exchange stuff, we also run a number of other services in connection with exchanges. Obviously we run the I route service which is well known. We run DNS services from any TLDs, we provide official Swedish time. T P test is a sort of semi?official bandwidth measurement tool that we use in Sweden where end users, home users, etc., can measure what actual useful band U I X width they get from their SIP against these T bit tests that are distributed around the country, so you can see what you actually get compared to what you are actually paying for, etc..

In Stockholm, connecting to NetNod is ?? compared with many other locations, more expensive and the major part of the more expensive part is that we include the cost of two fibre pairs to the two different switches in Stockholm as part of the connection fee. In other cities, that is not the case. There we basically leave to the SIP to ?? well find connectivity to the exchange. So this is a special situation just for Stockholm that sort of brings the price up there.

Because of the situation in Stockholm and because of the fairly large number of peers we have in Stockholm, there were lots of fibre, lots of fibre going across the city in all sorts of directions and we also had the problem that the city fibre company charged more for what they called outer city connections. So, inner city connections were cheaper and outer city connections were more expensive and several of the major co?lo facilities that have appeared over the past years are located in what they refer to as outer city, there by bringing the price up. For that reason we have recently, as in late last year, installed a W D M system in three of the major hosting facilities around Stockholm. Thereby, sort of changing the price structure for connection at those locations to inner city fees, which is a noticeable price reduction.

We will ?? we don't run any route servers today but we will do that later this year. We are obviously tracking the interest in and work on route servers among the other IXP in euro I X and we are clearly reaching that point that from one point of view the need is large enough and secondly the experience with and the software being more and more stable over time is reaching the nice of cut over point that this is the nice thing to do for us.

We have switched to have port security enabled everywhere, which is sort of the natural step.

We are slowing expanding. We added two more members, and just last week we added another one, emly. And anyone who is interested in taking down dates in their calenders, the upcoming NetNod customer meeting is not the 9th and 10th of September. It's the 23rd and 24th September. I am sorry about that. Not my fault.

So, that is the wrong date.

This is a short overview of the connection structure. Obviously most of this is Stockholm, because that's where we have most of the international connections. We have a fair number of ?? we have a fair amount of traffic in the other locations, but obviously vastly lower number of peers and the reason for this is because this is well major Swedish carriers exchanging traffic in more locations around the country rather than to have all of it nailed down in Stockholm. And I don't think we will see much more there over time.

Here is the aggregated traffic graph for all of the cities all around the country. So as you can see, we are peaking somewhere above 200 gigs. But if we look at Stockholm, the graph is very similar, and this really shows that most of the traffic is in Stockholm and there we peak somewhere 160, 170 gigs presently.

As I said, in addition to the exchange point stuff, we do lots of DNS. So, if you are interested and you are connected to some exchange somewhere around the world basically, and you don't peer with us already, and you want to peer with someone who supplies route servers and lots and lots of TLD servers, it would be appreciated if you got in contact with us and we would be happy to peer with you.


CHAIR: Thank you. Question, Martin does.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Martin Leavy, Hurricane Electric. This is not in any way a criticism but more a question for everybody to hear. Can you talk about your policy at NetNod of publishing the traffic graphs for every customer?

I can say a little bit but obviously it's not what I do most, so if there is anything confusing you will probably have to talk to Kurtis. In Sweden we had a tradition for many years of publishing the traffic graphs, and most of the ISPs are just fine with this. There was one major Swedish SIP that was not fine with this and because of their complaints, well their name was removed. So, we had a very strange situation where it was basically here are all the traffic graphs. SIP 1, SIP 2, SIP 3, etc. And then anonymous SIP, but it was basically just one, is it wasn't really hard to figure out which one it was. So the question was: What amount of anonymity did this actually provide? And the answer is not a lot. Whenever this comes up, typically in our customer meetings and dealing with customers, we are still in a situation where most of them actually are happy to see the traffic graphs published. And that's why we do it. I mean, to some extent, NetNod is not formally a membership organisation like many other exchanges but of course we have to respond to what our customers want and if most of the customers said we don't want traffic graphs, well something would obviously happen. But that hasn't been said. More questions?

CHAIR: Okay. Thank you very much.
And now we have nick presenting the INEX update.

NICK HILLIARD: Good afternoon everybody. My name is nick Hilliard and I am CTO of INEX. We are getting bigger. More traffic and more ports and more points of presence and more graphs. And actually I am kind of sick of this because this is really boring stuff. And I am tired of it. I am tired of standing up here and giving you the same information each time. So I am not going to do it this time. I am going to disappoint you. And instead, what I am going to do is I am going to give you a quick review of what's happened over the past five years. It's not very good really, because we have sat through this number of IXP updates. 127. And every time you make a PowerPoint, Edward tufte kills a kitten. That's 127 kittens.

I don't feel very good about this. But we have learned some things. We have learned that traffic is up. And we have learned that the port count is up. And we have learned that we have all upgrade and opened new POPs and that all the graphs are pointing up and to the right. About have we learned anything new?

I think with we should take a look. I have had a look at 113 presentations. That's 145 Megs of PDF down loads from the RIPE website. This was quite an undertaking and this is a brief summary of what we were doing here. This is the number of presentations per meeting that we have had. The trend, as we can see, is actually upwards, and this horrifies me a little bit. We are going from an average of maybe 10 presentations five years ago to about 12 and a half. And I am extrapolating this I figure that in about 100 years time we are going to be up to about 62 and a half IXP updates. We are start drawing conclusions here.

The first thing is this part of the RIPE meeting does not scale. Presentations per IXP. Okay. You can see a very committed group of people over there on the right?hand side, IXP who have presented at every single RIPE EIX Working Group. INEX has presented at every RIPE Working Group that we have attended. So we have sort of a 100 percent presentation. But the really interesting figure actually here is everybody else, which is number 8. So we have had 127 presentations, but actually we have only had sort of eight from IXPs who don't really present terribly often. I think that's a real shame. I think we need to hear from new IXPs an awful lot.

Conclusion number 2: Let's go on to some buzz word bingo. So, I did some contextual analysis of all of these things, these presentations. And, yeah, these were all of the tags that I built?up. This is an exponential graph and this is actually quite interesting because it means that the topic frequency is good and it's a really, really good fit and we can extrapolate from this that the old adage is true that the plural of anecdote is really data. So going back here and having a quick look. Well, oh my God, everybody wants to talk about their traffic peaks. It's just a real curse. Surprisingly, most IXPs actually have members connected to them. There appears sob some some, you know, for some reason just don't want to talk about them, maybe they are embarrassed by the membership, I don't know. But...

And some of them have lots of ports and lots of points of presence and that sort of thing. Lots of them have 10 gig ?? is there any IXP that doesn't have 10 gig these days. I don't think we need to mention that much terribly more. At the other end we have one mention of no more 10 Meg. I think this was AMS?IX. Only a couple of IXPs are doing A Yours sincerely 112. IXPs don't want to be honest about their outages. There is a few of them have mentioned outages over the years but not terribly much.

One or two more interesting things. We had the largest in XXX, that's ?? we are the largest IXP in whatever it was and we had a rash of those a couple of years ago. Fortunately it seems to have died out now.

Hard figures: You have an 87.61% chance of hearing about an IXP's peak traffic stats. And you have a 46.9% chance of being told that the IXP has 10 gig ports. IXPs seem to have meetings. Do we immediate to hear that they have meetings? And sadly, at the other end, only 7% of updates were from you new IXPs, which is really really sad. So the conclusion we have to draw here is that most of the data we are seeing is just re appearing. I have an observation, and a confession, that INEX is very guilty in this respect. We present much the same data. It's single slide, you know, stats, blah, that sort of thing, we don't mention our outages terribly much, we don't have many but we don't mention the ones that we do, so we are guilty as charged.

I have some suggestions. I think we need to rethink this session a little bit, because the feedback that I hear on IRS C from people at other meetings is that some people find this a slightly boring session and we need to ask ourselves as IXPs are we doing the best thing for everybody in this room by presenting this data in the format that it's being presented right now. We could do talks on more interesting topics. We could probably do a lot fewer talks an up and to the right. We are all up and to the right. We are all growing at the moment and that's okay. Because at some stage, that will stop. And, you know, we can mention it when it stops as well.

And ultimately, if we don't change, most of us are going to feel like this. It's probably how most of us feel after last night. I think we need to aim for an audience like this. An attendant I have audience that's being entertained with interesting data. So thank you very much. If there are any questions I'd be glad to take them.

CHAIR: So... we have got some questions.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: I see it was a very close race between route servers and route servers, I could start a predictive pool on this since you are doing method data and so forth and we could keep track of this phenomenon going forward.

NICK HILLIARD: It's always the usual trouble makers come up to the microphones. You have the raw data, you are very welcome to analyse it any way you see fit.

CHAIR: Any more questions? I think that we should actually have conversations about how everyone feels about the IXP updates because despite Nick's opinion there is going to be people in the room who really, really appreciate the updates, find them useful. But that said, it would be good to hear more from people who have never presented before at a RIPE meeting, and also, a greater range of topics on maybe research that IXPs are doing and new stuff that IXPs are doing, so I definitely want to talk to some people later today with feedback from that on your talk. Thank you.

It's now five past lunch everybody. So, go and enjoy it. We have back here with different presentations in the afternoon at 4 p.m.. there is going to be structure presentations on route servers, commercial topics and more. So I'll see you again at 4. Thank you.

(Lunch break (break)